okay - run down:
neuvation - cool stuff - cheap, good arguments...
Gravity Zero - clutch? no lag? hmmm
HED - sweet new offer... except i'm too fat for Ti-spokes (at least i think so)
Topolino - very cool, these i'd like to try... but maybe not buy
Easton - argue passionately against the j-bend... kinda counter the neuvation guy's mantra
Rolf - My old vector pros still rock... not sure why i'm looking... can't have too many wheels can ya now ;)
that and how do you beat a set ya built by hand... with three different spokes, bladed non-drive in a radial pattern, straight 2.0 pulling spokes, 1.7-1.4(i think) idle spokes... makes for a light and wicked quick accelerating wheel without the harshness of a complete 2.0 spoked wheel...
ah well - ya know - i can muse and babble in my tower - thinkin can't really make me faster - just riding... focused specific riding... a goal would be to have a nice balance of the mesomorph power (i'm not one btw - i'm the poster child for the tall skinny kid) and the uber twitchy spinning freaks...
i do see riders with ability to spin, but no strength/force behind that... it don't matter how fast they are spinning, they tend to top out at 28-30 mph... can't develop the strength to break that barrier...
hmmm is that like the speed of sound for cyclists?
== okay == i've been makin numbers... the hard way -
looking at the power requirements from 19 mph up to 33 mph for KL (4'11" 43 kg individual) and me (6'6" 90 kg individual)
picking 30 mph it requires 40% MORE power for me to go the same speed - with the assumption that KL's on a 700c bike, not a 650c. 90.2% of my power is fighting wind resistance, and only 85.3% of KL's is doing the same.
Logically the first conclusion: KL can benifit WAY more than me by making the other resistance factors better: front & rear wheel drag and rolling resistance. The rolling resistance is the least out of line 1.9% (404.5 gmf) for me and 1.6% (212.4 gmf) for KL.
I should clarify - i could pick Delightful Dawn as a comparison but she's taller than KL and its always more fun to use uber extremes (maybe that's why tall guys like dating short women, although i'm sure KL will say my wife at 5'4" isn't that short)
Okay - anyway back to the comparison... the rolling resistance is the biggest difference in force, the numbers for Drag are identical between as they are independent of our frontal area and weight, and only a function of wheel mass, inertia and aero stuff... that's where the almost 5% difference in forces get sucked in...
and why i draw the first conclusion that lighter wheels would make a significantly bigger difference for a smaller rider than a bigger rider.
Now the questions all those funny people stuck in the middle are asking: where do i fall in?
go plot it for yourself here. I took a few assumptions that solobreak made... they are:
| Frontal Area | 0.7 | 0.4 | m2 |
| Weight Rider | 90.0 | 43.0 | kg |
| Weight Bike | 9.0 | 8.0 | kg |
The other stuff - ie wheel weights and all that - i fudged on the lighter side for the hell of it... and cause i think it was a bit high - but maybe not...
I'd be suprised if i was a full 0.7 square meters... i ain't the widest guy on the block, but it makes for a reasonable assumption. And the bike weights should be close but 2.2 pounds is a safe difference between the two...
kinda funny - i started off thinkin about wheels and show to myself un-intentionally that wheels don't do shit for me - i gotta be strong... and crap, i gotta be at least 40% stronger than KL to match her at 30 mph (no headwind, no draft)...
it sort of supports the point though that i was looking at - if ya got a total power threshold of say 20,000 (gmf) then for me i couldn't ever get going 29 mph without a draft or a tailwind. And maybe that's where its helpful to find your power limits - damn musings and pre-oocupied ponderings... that and the lambda scans with the 'test' slides have me a bit confounded... seems they have a much broaded emission/excitation range than one might expect... or that i expected...
4 comments:
Bladed spokes do more for me than light weight. I like durability, and safety. I don't want my front wheel tacoing when I'm in a tuck at 80 kph and hit a small hole. Somehow I trust big companies where the engineers have corporate liability lawyers looking over their shoulders, and who can afford destructive testing. This pretty much narrows it down to Shimano, Bontrager, and maybe Mavic. The HED wheels look cool though, nice price, the Ti spokes are front only so I think you are OK. I'm still TTing on a 15 year old HED disc.
"Give me Shimano, or give me HED." -Patrick "Big Ring Beavis" Henry
yeah - that makes sense, the bladed spokes cut down windresitance, and although heavier the wind at speed is much more of a factor...
but its still a small% of our expenditure compared to tiny riders...
and i'll put my trust in a wheel i built, but on that side, take Nuevation for example, i'd trust that wheel. Big point in that if ya go into buisness and your products aren't overbuilt ya asking for litigation. Hence, most commercially availible stuff is in general over built.
The days of big fat riders walking into a shop and demanding a set of tubulars made from the GEL280 rims is long gone... fortunately...
Dave L has a pair of Neuvations. I will ask him for comments. Dave, if you are reading this... I like the design of them because they look repairable. They are not scary-light. The Neuvation guy seems like a straight shooter. I am not positive, but I think he might have been the Mavic rep around here many moons ago.
Finding bladed spokes these days seems to be an issue? I never see DT's anymore. I have seen Sapims on some sketchy website, but they were like $4.50 each.
Zipps scare me. They may be the fastest/lightest wheel out there, but they seem to break a lot and cost a fortune. Most of the wheels that are significantly lighter than the rest seem to do it with an alloy cassette body. That is worth about 100 grams over steel, but it is not really rotating weight as it is so close to the axle. The Shimanos that I have don't seem to be nearly as popular as Ksyriums, maybe because they do not have a low advertised weight, but they are super fast, stiff, and durable. Only drawback is the proprietary spokes and tools, and if you let the meat wear off your brake pads, then the wheel guides will start to click the spokes on heavy braking. That scares the shit out of me. Shimano keeps the pads pretty skimpy these days too, so I replace them twice a season. At least the cartridge pads make it easy.
The smaller, lower total power rider is always going to benefit the most from light equipment. I told KL the day I met her that she should always race in a skinsuit to try to be as aero as possible.
Funny though, all the 200 lb masters have the coolest bikes. Last year I needed a special exemption to race with wire wheels and a steel frame.
-D
one of the guys around here has a pair (nuevation), damn fine stuff i must say. Equal in quality/feel to the mavic stuff. That and i have to say, i'm far more on the side of a bent spoke than a straight one, but i'm also a UBI grad and I LOOOOOVE building wheels... and bent spokes are classic...
that and a buddie in michigan ordered a pair and he like em, although when i talked to him he had just ridden them up and down the hall at work...
Those shimano wheels that came out right after the Rolfs using the paired spoke stuff never inspired any confidence for me, that and i've seen a few too many of the early production ones completely fail.
200 lb masters with cool bikes...
i hadn't thought about that - but it could be more or less true...
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