And yes. I managed a 4th place. Sure there were only 19 guys instead of 90... but I beat a few folks i haven't yet this year and i hung with my #1 benchmark competitor.
When you've gone up against someone 13 times in the last year, head to head, and ya battle every weekend. That's what it is all about.
Bill D has been the guy i've gone up against time and time again. I've only bested him 4 times, and that was last year. He's been flying out of the gates. Attributing his speed to the wed night Ninigret crits. And yes cronoman, jb, JB, all yall saying the same thing: Crits are the closest you can come to a cross race in terms of power demands. I concede the point and will see what i can do to get some of those things in next year leading up to cross. Bill's been just out of reach until Saturday on the races. Usually he comes around me when i crack, lap 2 or 3. This time, he got around and i wasn't fahking going ANYWHERE. I held on, i gritted my teeth and then i went around...
Made a pass, showed him the good lines, and then he got back around and showed me that he pays attention to the good lines and can use them. I caught him on the run up... had to slow down at the top i was on his heals but i couldn't get through the twisty down hill close enough on his wheel to come around to contest the sprint there at the end. He found enough juice in the tank to get just enough distance on the last section before the run up...
it was a freaking BLAST...
The Verge/ne-bra folks may ignore the rivalries, the intensity of the competition in the 3/4 masters or the 4 men's race. But those of us out there duking it out know that small victories for us mean more than a GP win to a "PRO" that said, i couldn't help but stir up the sh!t on the list, sarcastically wondering just how much work it would take to tabulate the results for the cat 4 and 3/4 masters and 3/4 women in terms of the series. Ya know, for the winner hand em a nice piece of paper saying they won the series and giving them an automatic upgrade out of the category. But then, well maybe that is just too much work.
Or maybe it is the same assmunching chauvanistic dickhead attitude that thinks women racers don't deserve the same purses or even close to the same prize list, or press, or anything that the elite men get. Sure. You can claim all sorts of half assed reasons for doing it. And yes, ultimately the racers vote with their registration fees. Myles is an exception. Too bad there ain't more of him running around. I'm voting with my race fee. Opting to skip the Chainbiter this weekend in favor of NoHo. the CT race thinks it is cool to have the 3/4 masters racing with the 4 men.
From lining up with those guys week in and week out, most of them are just the masters who've been doing it a while but aren't competitive with the 1,2,3 guys. The % of beginners seems to be low. Most beginners really do seem to start in the 4 race.
But promoters treat the 3/4 Master's event like a c race. And that ain't cool. Adam "yawns" about the whole discussion. Kind of insulting. But then he is one of the promoters who have stepped up and given the 3/4 35+/45+ masters their own start time. So, that's okay. Canton said no 35+ 3/4 race. If i could have managed to make it i might have raced, but without the 3/4 35+ race my motivation to find a race day or race course 'sitter was undermined horribly. Sure, the promoter can only run so many races during the day. So, why be different and have a 3/4 45+ race but no 3/4 35+ race? You really want the slower 35+ guys racing with Bold Boivin and the rest of those fast freaks of nature? Doesn't really seem fair. But hey. All ya can do is move on.
But the worst you can do is be silent when you feel something is wrong, or unjust.
Complacency is wrong. You shouldn't ever be afraid to make your voice heard. How many people signed up to race in the 3/4 masters field at Gloucester? Hmmm. That was a lot of people IIRC. One of the biggest fields. Maybe not the biggest, but certainly pretty damn huge.
Heading up to Canton though, heck i had to go, 40 minutes away, i wasn't gonna race but i could at least come up and watch as long as the girls would tolerate. It was great. Thanks for the cake Zank, it was perfect, the little one ate her frosting and fell alseep, the oldest ate it all and chatted all the way home. The whole getting the time wrong made us show up a bit later than we'd planned but hey, it was a productive hour spent thinking it was early. That and flying up to the race i passed Marianne Stover in her kick ass car, and right in front of her (or was it the other way around) was Pauline Frascone... cool... How often da ya see real PROs headed to the race? Well not often, cause they race in the luxurious time slots in the afternoon...
Super start award goes to the HUB and Circle-A elite cross team. Why? They took mass transit to get to the race. Reducing the impact on the planet. Proximity to a Mass transit stop should be listed in race fliers. Speaking of race fliers, i also took offense at the Canton cup for listing how to get there from every direction except if you are traveling north on I-95. Maybe they just assume we are all smarter down here than the folks coming from cape cod, boston, springfield, hartford, or where ever.
that's enough negativity...
send ya healing thoughts out to Yogurt Boy... It sounds like Bergeron's injuries were not very different. That's not very good.
peace
G
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55 comments:
yeah, you really do like to stir up shit on the ole necx list!
Is it safe to assume from Adam's response that you've brought this up before?
i don't think *I* have...
but maybe...
it feels like it always gets swept under the table by the "we're faster and we make the rules" crowd...
Edward Abbey said to keep the pot stirred... so...
stir stir stir...
although, i'd guess that the pot hasn't been stirred enough lately... so much shit that ya not sure if ya can stir it enough to keep it from rising to the top as soon as you stop...
Part of the reason I upgraded this year was to be able to race in a time slot with ONLY MY FIELD! I felt bad for the 3/4 women yesterday - there were 30+ of them racing at the same time as NINETY-EIGHT Cat 4 men. YIKES!
After racing 3/4 at Gloucester, and being taken out by a junior, I decided never again... But I have that option...
There are already 107 riders combined in the cat 4 and cat 3/4 35+ race at Farmington. It will be a zoo for sure. You are correct, G, that they did once consider the B Masters race basically a part of the C race. But that has certainly changed. Some promoters just haven't gotten the memo yet. It will continue to evolve. Keep stirring the pot!!
yes, cathy - i actually have the option as well...
being a 3 means i can pretty much race (and get my ass kicked) in any event i want to. but... right now, i'm really only competitive in the 3/4 masters field.
The old man B race.
watch the list...
zank's given me an idea...
uh-oh.
Please. The promoter does all the work, takes all the risk. They give up their racing, training, time with their kids, spouse, and friends, pull in volunteer help from wherever they can, secure the venue, deal with the public, pick up the gel packets arrogant racers leave behind, all that fun stuff. They deserve to be able to make the choices about what races they run based on whatever criteria they damn well choose. Like you said, don't go if you don't like it.
Farmington is a great course and IMHO handles big fields and multiple races better than anywhere.
You can always put on your own race the same day. Maybe a race for just old disgruntled masters who want the course to themselves. WilliCross 2008!
I recognize that Solo,
it still would be nice, seeing as this is new england ya know...
if people would regionally get their shit together...
no?
esp if you are gonna be in a points series?
Shouldn't ALL the races in the SAME point series (VERGE Ne-bra for example) have the same format/start time?
no?
is that too much to ask?
maybe it is...
To be the devil's advocate, point series for the 3/4 would be stupid anyway. Just like the cat 4 series on the road, if you're scoring points you should be upgraded before the end of the season anyway, so what's the point (pun intended).
If you want the course to yourself, you can do the regular masters (also no different than the road). There should not be a 3/4 race period. If you're a Cat 4, do the cat 4 race regardless of your age. If your a Cat 3, you belong in the regular master race, or else you should downgrade.
What you are saying is "I'm competitive if they get rid of everyone good." No wonder Adam is laughing. Nobody in the masters is a full-time rider. The playing field is level. The people who finish ahead of you are just better than you. That is what competitive means - it's a competition.
Should I print up the "My friend was rider of the week at the Pussyfelt Cyclocross Race" bumper stickers to boost everyone's self-esteem?
So, I can also choose to race the 3/4 race (and be competitive) or the 1/2/3 race (and get my ass kicked). Given the option, and having to race in the same time slot as NINETY-EIGHT racers in another category, I CHOOSE to get my ass kicked ;). Call me crazy.
And Solo - I agree with you that it is a lot of work for the promoters, but I have to say that SOME consistency, as suggested by Gewilli, would really be good.
Thanks Cathy - at least someone is getting it...
consistency...
score it or not... i don't give a shit
all i is saying is ya got the fucking results on a fhaking computer - fuckhing print up the numers...
that and how about the complete lack of consistency in the "Masters may only register for ONE masters Race?"
It has been that way at MOST races this year. But not Canton.
So Solo, how do you feel about that? Some promoter offers a 3/4 race and a 1,2,3 race for the 35+/45+ but makes no distinction that racers cannot compete in both? Should all the 3s race in both races?
I spent many races last year in the regular masters field. It was fine. I don't really care what field i race in, i like the effort a hell uv a lot. I'd race 2x every weekend because it is so much fun.
Consistency...
it was pretty consistent last year... and the 3/4 masters racing behind the 4 men was a disaster.
Just look at the first lap at Baystate... the 3/4 masters hit a wall of immobile cat 4 at the base of the run up.
G-ster had it right... at least that's what it seemed to me...
or as close as possible (besides the fact that they didn't have a discounted rate for doing more than one race, even when the official pointed out that they shouldn't be double charging for race day insurance coverage)....
i meant i would race 2x a day each weekend if i could... ie 4 races a weekend...
I'll agree that putting the B women out there with the Cat 4 herd is a poor solution. But, at this time of year, the promoter only has so much daylight. Choices have to be made. Someone is going to be unhappy. If you have a long, wide course like Farmington, at least it lessens the suck factor of mixing and reduces lapping. On the shorter courses, races should probably be cut, but promoters need to eat too...
I also understand that if all the beginner masters did the 4 race, we'd need two 4 races. That's fine, 35+ 4 race makes sense, then upgrade those who consistently finish high and let them move on to the 1/2/3 master race. But what is the point of being a 3 if you insist on racing with 4's? That part I don't get.
Until we have an overseeing body that is providing promoters with some form of tangible help, I favor autonomy/independence over consistency. Why should everything be the same every week? If I'm going to bust my ass to promote a race, I want to put my stamp on it.
As for the "one race rule," stupid. On the road, it's been simple for decades - the criteria for entering the race is specified, and if you meet it, you can race.
Again, 3/4 is dumb. If you want to race with the 4's, then be a 4.
Remember, G-ster has warmer weather and more daylight than Sterling does. There are other factors too. For instance, if a race relies on a school for facilities, maybe the custodian doesn't want to come in at 7 am and stay until 5:30 pm. You can't standardize everything.
You kids are spoiled.
fine - 3/4 is dumb...
go with a 2/3 race
or call it a freaking B race...
Why do the masters have to have an A race and that's it?
Used your fuckin brain solo...
and regarding the promoters...
Put your damn stamp on the race with the course, or the venue, or the schwag or the free food, or the hot cider, or... or... or...
but leave the race categories the same...
3/4 might just be dumb. But a 3 shouldn't ever be competitive with a Cat 1/2 in theory right?
Why have the cat 3 racing with the 1/2s?
Make a 1/2 Masters race and then a 3 masters race and make the 4s race in the 4s.... or have a masters 4 only race...
"You kids are spoiled."
And you are a fahking grumpy old man...
Again, 3/4 is dumb. If you want to race with the 4's, then be a 4.
So, how do you feel about this statement:
"2/3 is dumb. If you want to race with the 3's, then be a 3".
Do mixed category fields ever make sense? Or are you singling out the 3/4 masters race in particular?
Dear God. I actually agree with Solobreak on something.
I knew all those drugs I did as a kid would come back to haunt me...
If I'm as grumpy as you claim, why am I not crying that the fifty 45+ riders who show up every week don't get their own race? I'd like that too, but I realize it's not an appealing option to most promoters.
You always have the option of racing in the senior 4. 4 is the lowest cross category, so if you're a beginner who is learning the sport, regardless of your age, then you need your own category. I already acknowledged that we may have many older beginners, and due to their age they should not be expected to place in the senior 4 race in order to gain and upgrade to 3 and race the masters.
Don't cry about 3s having to race with the 2s. This is a humbling sport. I think I know as well as anyone that you can work your ass off and still get beat badly by those who are simply better/faster/stronger/smarter than I am. No handouts.
If you need to see your name in the top 10 on bikereg, well, I'd better get those bumper stickers printed up.
Colin's got it.
if a 3/4 race is dumb, then a 2/3 race is dumb.
have a 1/2 race for Elite, Women and Masters
then a 3 race for Elite, Women and Masters
then a 4 race for Elite, Women and Masters
Sure that's like what, 9 different races... oh my god, no way. that's HORRIBLE...
And by elite i mean Seniors/Men/whatever
Solo,
the 45+ usually DO get their own "race"
well they get scored like they were racing themselves...
If they are going to be racing themselves why not pull all the 45+ out of the ranking and give the 35+ guys their own results. Like at G-ster. Take all the 45+ out and i move up 5 spots.
Colin, in general, yeah, I think category mixing is dumb. Why have them if you're going to mix them. However, some parts of the country simply don't have the numbers we are lucky to have here, so I can see why it's allowed. Also, in cross, the elite races is sometimes UCI sanctioned, and thus the 2/3 race was born, as not everyone has a UCI license. If you're a Cat 1, I guess they expect you go get one. Also remember the cross category on the licenses has only been around for a few years and is still a work in progress.
Over the years, the debate about whether masters should be segregated on ability or age has surface from time to time. You could also argue that athletes peak later in life these days, and maybe 40 is a more appropriate age for a master than 35.
Again, the playing field is level. This is not the Special Olympics.
I know, we could make it like mountain biking where every age, ability, gender, and bike type has its own category...
Ge, I'm very sorry to hear that the 45+ riders cheated you out of so much recognition at Gloucester. It looks like 9 spots to me. I'll be sure to have a special bumper sticker printed up for you, one that says "I was really 19th in the 3/4 Masters race at Gloucester, not 28th like it says on bikereg."
I'm working on ribbons of participation too. If we join hands and sing Kumbaya, can you play background violin for us?
day 1 iirc it was 5 spots...
you were the one who brought up the 45+ not me...
Yes - by all means avoid the clusterfuck that is plaguing mtb races...
that is certainly turning into the special olympics type of everyone getting a medal or something for showing up...
A work in progress there is the key.
I see very little "PROGRESS" from last year. And see'n as what last year was the first for the categories? Maybe we should be seeing more "progress" in sorting out this BS that the categories created.
no?
A Masters event, B Masters event?
Or no.
Look at the break down for Gloucester and seeing as you are so wicked fahking smart...
come up with a better fahking way to delineate the categories...
eliminate the 3/4 masters field and see how you can make it work w/o hitting field caps of say 125 (that or we could go with a 250 rider field like i hear some Oregon races have had).
And geesus - Solobreak, you race ONE freaking cross race a year and suddenly you are all "MR KNOW IT BEST ABOUT THE CURRENT CROSS RACING SCENE"
sheesh...
Everyone in this thread who has ever promoted a cross race raise their hand...
Yeah, it's been a long time, but when I promoted them, there was no bikereg, no B race, no results past 10th place (if you were lucky), and NO WHINING. People really did love the sport then. Marro and I raked, scraped, pounded stakes, strung tape and signs, even drained swamps, then kitted up and lined up with Frank, Mark (in there fucking prime too BTW), Adam, Wejak, Curley and anyone else who showed up. We fought to keep from getting lapped, usually unsuccessfully. And we loved it. And kept coming back. After a while, what do you know, a few other people picked up on it, and the next thing I know everyone's crying about getting screwed by the man...
You were promoter bashing. Or constructively criticizing...
did i ever said i was getting screwed?
i said i felt incredibly lucky to have as many dedicated promoters putting on as many kick ass races as there are...
i said that maybe rather than expressing their "personal stamp" on the categories, maybe they can experss it in other more lasting ways...
no one is ever perfect - if they think so they should get their ass handed to them in a bag, often the ass had their head firmly implanted in it... and they should get it handed to them frequently and often...
The world has no place/room for people who believe their way is the only way and the best way and that they have no need or reason to look around and find ways to improve it...
if you aren't willing to defend/discuss your point of view then well, it probably isn't worth holding onto....
have a 1/2 race for Elite, Women and Masters
then a 3 race for Elite, Women and Masters
then a 4 race for Elite, Women and Masters
Sure that's like what, 9 different races... oh my god, no way. that's HORRIBLE...
Well, you forgot juniors, and cub juniors. So we're talking about 11 races. So it is kind of horrible.
I think we can agree that you can't start a race before 9 and you can't start your last race after 3:30. So that really gives you 9,10,11,12,1,2:30,3:30 as the absolute maximum number of start times. Seven races.
It ain't easy to squeeze 11 or more fields into 7 slots. You end up with stuff like "Elite Juniors and B women race together"... which leads to some interesting situations... but it's damn hard to do better.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
From "Self Reliance" by
Ralph Waldo Emerson
colin,
how about writing a spiffy algorithm that takes into account lap times of all the fields, field sizes and timing?
should be easy to model the ideal break down... no?
;)
What about the transexual meter maids? They deserve their own race too!
I guess that means no on the violin backup? How about if we give you a solo too (another pun intended) and promise to list you first in the credits, in a bigger font then everyone else?
Special Olympics? Huh?
GCD - ...where everyone gets a medal.
Ah, you mean like the Boston Marathon or something like that, where everyone gets a medal.
I don't have time to read all this, but--the midatlantic chose to make its big series all UCI races, that is what the verge series is up here. the MABRA cross series is more low key with classes like single speed and a points jersey for old slow farts and b women.
it sound like someone needs to string together a bunch of the singleton races that already exist and make a more local-ish series out of it.
i vote G take the reins on this one.
great.
get to work.
xoxo
m
You have to qualify to get in the Boston Marathon. And the entry fee is pretty steep. You want a medal for finishing a 35 minute C race?
We covered this. MTB racing has about 50 different award categories. IIRC, people were complaining that the races were too short at Mt Snow. That ran for 3 days, but hey, they have to fit it all in somehow.
Once again, Meg and I agree. It's almost like we're the same person...
That's it though Ge. If you want the big race, the support trailers, the fenced in finishing stretch, the inflatable finish banner, and let's not forget your buddy Rich Fries (who btw, is one of the people who has done more than his share over the years to help get cyclocross to the place it is today in New England, something that should not be taken for granted by the Willi-come-latelys), you should play with the big kids. B and C racers can have B and C events. And promote them.
Everyone wants to race at Nationals, but not many want to do the work it takes to become a national-calibre competitor.
No wonder so many people throw rocks at me...
All marathons provide medals for all finishers, as do many halfs.
The point I was trying to make is this, and it is separate from the larger thread, but an important one nonetheless.
By creating a comparison between "everyone wins" events and "only one wins" events, you seem to be implying that the everyone wins events are somehow more diminutive in stature. You use the Special Olympics to set up an extreme comparison ("This is not the Special Olympics")
This, I would suggest, is a poor use of an example. I would further suggest simply making your point rather than drawing in a group of people (those who participate in the Special Olympics) who are completely unrelated to the topic at hand, and are consistently raised as an example of being diminutive. There are plenty of other examples that could be raised to make the point.
GCD - Fair enough. I'm not disrespecting the Special Olympics, not intentionally anyway. I might be an asshole, but that's only to spar with Gewilli...
The point is that the category's are artificial separation of people who all have the same opportunity to compete, and to get good enough to do so. If you can't make it in the A race, well? Is it the promoter's responsibility to put on a race that you can win? I don't think so. It's a competition. Don't cry because you can't win. The people who win the A races are just like us, except they have done what it takes to get that fast. No one tapped them on the shoulder with a magic sword.
The marathon is a huge event. As noted, they charge a lot to get in. So the promoter can provide tokens of participation to everyone. It's a nice gesture.
"categories"
... I hate doing that.
If I thought you were an a-hole, I just would have told you to F-off and ran you into a tree at the next race.
Categories are artificial for sure. It is interesting that road races break out 5 35+ and 5 34-, placing more of a premium on age grouping than category grouping. Cross seems to be split between the two approaches.
It is funny to think that as a "new" 3 (as of Sunday), I can race any number of races, but where do I belong based on my speed and skill? Probably 3/4. I also know lots of guys who are 4s who might as well race as 3s based on experience, but they are never going to accumulate the points to upgrade, or the number of races needed.
I'll probably never upgrade from a Cat 5 for that reason. I split my time between tris and road races, and don't have enough time to rack up 10 races. But, I can hang easily enough with most 4s.
Lesson: serve beer after the race and everyone's happy.
GCD - Road is slightly different, as we heavily count on predictable behavior in the group to keep everyone upright. Many new riders, particularly those from MTB and multisport, are easily strong enough to race above cat 5. Putting all the beginners together where they can only kill each other, well, until someone comes up with a better idea, that's what we'll have. Seriously though, the thinking is the higher categories are going to ride against each other more aggressively and the level of bike handling and pack skills will require experience.
I'm not sure when they started categories. Il Brucie might know, I think he dates back to the ABA. I'm pretty sure Cat 4 came out in 1984, and Cat 5 was only about ten years ago. So many of the masters who are still around started out as Cat 3's and never actually had to earn an upgrade. I started as a 4.
For cross I'm not sure why they decided on only 4 categories. Or are there 5? I don't even know. It seems like we only need 3.
As for the beer, that's why I prefer independent wagers of 40's or 22 oz bombers. It's better for the competition, and way more fun than getting a cheesy medal or your name on bikereg. I'm planning on going to Middleboro tomorrow night. I'll buy anyone on this thread who finishes ahead of me a 40. How's that for promotion? Ge?
“small victories for us mean more than a GP win to a "PRO"”
Yeah - except it puts food in the Pro’s fridge… please.
==
“most promoters treat the 3/4 masters rice like the c race”
maybe because it has cat 4 riders in it?
==
"But the worst you can do is be silent when you feel something is wrong, or unjust."
civil rights struggle, meet cross race.
==
“i also took offense at the Canton cup for listing how to get there from every direction except if you are traveling north on I-95”
You have got to be kidding me. Do you actually show up at a race looking for things to criticize? I was peripherally involved with this race (helped for 3 hrs on Sunday). I could tell it was a crapload of work to put this on. Sometimes shit just happens, ok?
Kudos to everybody who busted their asses on Saturday setting up the course, and then again on Sunday running a pretty smooth race as far as I can see and read from other blogs. I’ll leave it at that; all this negative crap on here is making me tired.
Having now co-promoted Canton for the 2nd time (and I was more involved this time around) I can say its a f'n @#$%load of time and energy.
So GeWilli - when you promote your race, let me know. I'll be sure to criticize you and leave you nothing but negative feedback. Because there's nothing like negative feedback to incentive-ize someone to do something again. Voice your opinion sure.. if you can do it better than go right the "fahk" ahead.
I agree on the categorization. Why break things up into 1/2/3/4 when you really only need 3? I think that's a bit silly when as y'll have pointed out there are only so many hours in a day that you can run races in. We went from A/B/C to this 1/2/3/4 in cross and it seems to create more confusion. Although now as a 3, who's "technically" 35, I can race just about anything except a 4 race. Nothing like choices to really make it interesting.
My reason for racing "3/4" Masters is that I know I can't even come close to competing with the likes of Bold, Hines, etc. Nor will I ever, unless I quit my job and do nothing but race my bike and train. (that's a whole other rant) Racing for 45th? Not so exciting. Racing for 3rd? Well that's a bit more fun. And what do we do this for!?
FUN, people. FUN! We do this for fun. If you ain't having fun - stop. Sell your f'n bike and quit bitchin'.
I've got some cheese to go with your whine Ge...
oh snap.
thanks for your hard work ctodd and jb, I know you and a bunch of others worked your rear off and this was a great race. look no further than mine, zanks, the hup team, many others blogs for some positive feedback. the first line often reads "canton, one of the finest races" or something along those lines.
Gewilli does not like to make points with numbers, or full sentences, or the word "you" -- but I do. So, let's compare entries from this weekend's Verge races:
Chainbiter: 66 C Men, 48 B Masters, 15 55+ (129 total)
Noho: 60 C Men, 74 B Masters, 17 55+
(151 total)
The Noho B master/55+ field is 44% bigger (91 vs 63) than Chainbiter. Noho has a separate B masters race. Thus, while the presentation of Gewilli's point leaves quite a bit to be desired, there is some value to it.
If we assume that the presence of a separate B master's race is the sole reason for the extra 28 entries on Sunday, then that's an extra $700 a promoter can make by lengthening the schedule to accommodate the old guys.
Is $700 worth it? I dunno. That's probably chump change compared to the total operating budget of a Verge race -- but surely it's of some use, right?
What I'm saying is that there does appear to be a significant demand for that race, probably more so than any other since the 35+ guys have stuff like families to weigh it against (I mean, I'd like to see a cat-3-only race, but I'm gonna show up even if the race is on Mars and it's 1/2/3/4 Men, so there's no extra money to be made off me). Gewilli wants to make people, aka promoters, aware of that demand, he just doesn't know how to do it without pissing people off.
Obviously promoters get to call their own shots. Running a Verge race is surely a daunting task, and just getting volunteers for an extra hour is a huge pain in the ass. Is an extra hour of running a race worth 28 racers, $700 and 10% less e-bitching? Damned if I know.
One observation that I think is interesting.
In running races, few people are capable of taking hardware, especially in the USATF-NE series where guys are running sub-5/mile in a 5k at the front. No one ever complains about not being able to compete. Part of the reason I think is because people are racing for times, and not places. If I PR, then I don't care where I ended up.
Cycling events are place-based, and not time based. No one cares what time you did, but where you ended. Creates different culture to thing.
In terms of categories, I guess there are two considerations: 1. how safe can you race (as evidenced by the number of races it takes to upgrade); 2. how fast can you race (as evidenced by the points needed to upgrade).
I think the (combined) category you race says as much about where you are going as where you are. 3's who race 2/3 are probably thinking about upgrading at some point. Probably young guys who are looking for moving up the ranks. 3's who race 3/4 are not planning on going anywhere necessarily, but looking to race with people who are similarly aged, geneticed, and sired (have families). 3's who race 1/2/3 are masochists who enjoy getting beat up and punishing themselves by watching CSPAN.
Farmington will do fine. Let the promoters make their own choices. Maybe Jan just knows she didn't get to be a World Champion by claiming some disadvantage and seeking out races where the strong and the weak were segregated...
Keep stirring Ge! Hell, attack me, I'm kind, gentle, and vulnerable!
Colin - it ain't about the money. There's also a time facrot as you mentioned. I left Canton around 5:30pm and they still were cleaning up the course. Probably another 1/2 hour I''d guess.. With 2 clubs we had an army of people which was a big help - still a lot of work though.
FYI - Neither NAV nor IBC got a penny for the race. The proceeds go to the Massachusetts Hospital School (where the race was held). They have a wheelchair foundation to help those kids get active and into sports even with their disabilities.
What we do get is to: (a) say we promoted a great race (b) check off that USCF requirement for clubs and (c) get some insight as to what it takes to execute a successful race.
Hey CTodd, one small suggestion for next year.
I would like to have known more about the school, what they do, etc. It would be cool if some kind of info was posted around the reg. area that describes who they are and what they do.
I like Ponies!
You addressed the money and time concerns. But what about the e-bitching?! It's hard to put a price on the internets.
some people get it (my point) some people don't
*sigh*
i just have zero political tact on the internet i guess...
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